Winter Driving Tips/Tire Recomendations for a Snow Noob.

"Ralstig" (ralstig) 10/16/2014 at 18:52 • Filed to: None

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I have been living in Florida for the past 15 years and have just recently moved to Sugar Mountain, North Carolina.

I can count the number of times I've seen snow on one hand. So needless to say, I am nervous about driving in it. Any tips?

I have a Mazda 2 and my GF is in the process of trading her car in for a Ecoboost, 4wd Escape. Any recommendations for snow tires?

Nibby > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 18:53

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35" BRIDGESTONE A/TS OFF ROADERS YO

HammerheadFistpunch > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 18:55

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Blizzak Ws70 for tires. As for the snow, just treat the pedals like they were made of hard boiled eggs, leave way more room that you think, and practice in an empty parking lot any time it snows. You should have it down pretty good in no time.

AM3R > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 18:56

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North Carolina? A set of Conti procontact DWS make a great performance all season. I'm in the DC area and have heard nothing but praise about these, which is why I'm running them!

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 18:57

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I live in Canada and have had Hakkapeliitta's and Blizzaks, both are pretty good winter tires.

The biggest thing is the driver, leave lots of extra room and be aware of other drivers.

Go screw around in a parking lot once the snow flys, you will learn a lot.

Steve in Manhattan > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 18:57

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Stay home.

Spasoje > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 18:58

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Anything made by Nokian. Your cars will have the traction of a mountain goat.

bob and john > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 18:59

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oh all the tires ive driven in the winter, by far and away my favortite were marangonni 4CI e's. pricey, loud, but they grip like no-body buisness. they also last a LONG time too. the set on my dads A3 TDI is getting replaced next year after 5 seasons on them. They still have tread, we dont trust the age at this point.

JGrabowMSt > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 18:59

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Slow is good. Steer into the skid, and apply power to straighten things out.

snow tires are not a gimmick, also ask your insurance company if you get any discount for using them.

If the snow comes within an inch of the rockers, dont even go out, you cannot and do not want to have your first experience in snow destroy your car.

Find a large open lot when theres less than an inch to learn in. Worst case scenario, no one else is involved.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:00

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Don't assume a corner is clear because it looks clear, there could be black ice. I learned this the hard way.

lone_liberal > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:03

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Smoothness is key. With the steering, gas and the brake. I've had good results with Blizzaks but I'm sure there are other tires that are just as good.

RPM esq. > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:08

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You just have to do everything twice as gently and smoothly than usual, anticipate your next move twice as far in advance, and leave twice as much space. And, if possible, don't stop...just keep moving along slowly.

Jonathan Harper > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:08

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Neil? Is that you?

NaturallyAspirated > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:11

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Driving in Alaska and Chicago, I'd say do whatever the locals do as far as winter tires. In Chicago, the roads were cleared so quickly after each snow that all-season tires were generally fine, while in Alaska LOL if you tried to run on all-seasons in the winter.

Do what everyone else has said. Find an empty parking lot to play around in. Make sure it doesn't have low concrete barriers that might be hidden by the snow.

Give it a second before you start going when a light turns green. I've seen many cars go sliding through the intersection right after their light turns red with all four tires locked up.

Front wheel drive is totally the way to go in most snowy situations. 4wd can behave unexpectedly (your car can literally crab sideways when you hit the gas), RWD will try to swap ends, while FWD will just go whichever direction the wheels are pointing most of the time.

Top Tip: "Steer into a skid" means "steer so that the wheels are pointing in the same direction the car is travelling."

Ralstig > lone_liberal 10/16/2014 at 19:12

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So basically just use what I've learned autocrossing. :)

Ralstig > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/16/2014 at 19:12

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That's what scares me the most, ice. I've heard a lot of horror stories about ice...

DasWauto > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:13

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This is a pretty good list: http://jalopnik.com/5962139/the-te…

Big Bubba Ray > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:13

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I'd highly suggest investing in snow tires, especially if you've never driven in it before. The best way to learn to drive in the snow is to simply hoon the shit out of your car in it. After the first snow, make your way to an empty parking lot and try to get your car to spin, fishtail, skid, whatever. Learn by doing. Learn how to turn into and pull out of a drift/skid. Do some hard braking runs to see how long it takes your car to come to a dead stop.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:15

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The best advice I can give, is to never drive faster than you feel comfortable with. If it's snowing and you see people doing 45 mph in a 45 mph but you're uncomfortable with anything over 25, throw on your hazards, get as far right as possible and get to where you need to go. Better late than never, right? Also, never go anywhere (unless absolutely necessary) on the first snow. At least here in Alaska. I don't know what it is but as soon as snow hits the ground, Alaskan's lose their fricken' minds and forget how to drive.

Ralstig > Spasoje 10/16/2014 at 19:15

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I've been doing some research on my own, I've heard a lot of good things about them. Unfortunately the closest place to get them is a few hours away. :/

Ralstig > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 10/16/2014 at 19:16

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So basically like Florida when it rains?

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:18

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I've never been to Florida so I can't confirm that but I did grow up in Northern California and people there freak out over rain too. No idea why, especially when they are also used to snow.

Big Bubba Ray > NaturallyAspirated 10/16/2014 at 19:18

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Very good advice on waiting for a couple seconds after a light turns green. I've personally slid through a couple lights when carrying a bit too much speed for conditions. Always a great idea to wait a second or two.

Ralstig > Big Bubba Ray 10/16/2014 at 19:19

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How different will the car want to handle? Are there certain traits the snow will exaggerate?

I'm really hoping that my autocross experience will help. (been autocrossing for almost a decade; wow I feel old now :/)

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:22

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Yeah it's the worst part of it. The best way to drive is to just assume theres ice on every corner and account for it, then you should be fine. I laid down my bike at 20mph on black ice because I thought the corner was clean.

Ralstig > DasWauto 10/16/2014 at 19:28

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Thanks for the link.

Spasoje > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:28

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If it helps, there's a Discount Tire in Hickory that could be not too far? (I got my Nokians at Discount Tire)

Arben72 > Steve in Manhattan 10/16/2014 at 19:36

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Best advice here. If it's bad enough for you to be worried, it's bad enough not to drive. Once your comfortable, you can drive in worse and worse weather.

T5Killer > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 10/16/2014 at 19:36

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Same here in Central and Northern NM. It snows during the winter and people cannot handle rain.

Ralstig > Spasoje 10/16/2014 at 19:48

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I didn't know Discount carried them. I was on Nokian and used their retailer search.

Thanks for the info.

Ralstig > T5Killer 10/16/2014 at 19:50

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I have seen people slow down to 55mph on the highway in the left lane with their lights off in a sun shower, where there is no visibility issues.

ly2v8-Brian > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:54

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Don't think 4x4/AWD is perfect. It really is no better than anything else.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 19:58

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Kind of like autocross, you do things a bit sooner than it looks like you should. Breath on the gas, breath on the brakes. Turn in and wait and wait for the tires to respond. If you understand high-performance driving, you'll pick it up quickly.

The most important thing is to let the car tell you what it is doing and not freak out.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 20:04

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Any snow tire will be better than no snow tire.

All seasons are ok. When my Goodyears wear out, I'm likely going to the winter-summer route.

I'm in StL and we probably get weather not too unlike the mountains in NC. Only a few really snow days a year, people freak out and drive like idiots. A few more ice or freezing rain storms than actual snow storms. Then by the fourth or fifth frozen event of the year, people finally figure it out.

The big danger is freeze-thaw-freeze. Snow over night. The sun comes out and melts it, then it freezes into black ice later the following night. This is when you really get caught out.

treesmakewater > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 20:07

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Hoon safely my freind

Ralstig > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 10/16/2014 at 20:23

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Thanks.

I have tons of High Performance driving experience, been autocrossing for 8+ years and race a Spec Miata. :)

Agrajag > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 20:35

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Check local tire places. Good chance they can get them even though they're not listed on their site.

Big Bubba Ray > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 20:52

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The car will handle pretty differently no matter what tires you have on. If you run basic all seasons like I do on my Outback, you'll more than likely experience some over/understeer. Stopping distances will increase greatly. Just keep your distance and allow yourself plenty of time when approaching a light or other cars. Since you have been autocrossing for so long (sorry to make you feel old haha) I assume you have a pretty solid understanding of car control and being able to predict how a car will react to different inputs.

Basically, just take it slow and you'll be fine! Better to get to your destination late than to either not get there at all or arrive with a banged up car. It also doesn't hurt to carry some tow straps in the trunk just in case. I've towed a few people out of the ditch and I'm sure somebody will be towing my ass out of the ditch some day haha

Anyways, sorry for the long winded response. As I said in the first reply, take your car (and your wife's after she gets it) to a snow covered empty parking lot and just go buck wild. You'll figure it out pretty quickly!

jvirgs drives a Subaru > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 22:02

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you probably wont need snow tires in NC. A good set of all seasons should be fine

deekster_caddy > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 23:14

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Except push the pedals less...

deekster_caddy > Ralstig 10/16/2014 at 23:16

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Best way to figure it out is to go find an empty parking lot immediately after it snows and get some practice. It's not that hard, you just go slower. The practice part is good for a little fun, and learning how to control a skid that has a lot less traction than you are used to.

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 01:15

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I just got my drivers license earlier this year, but I have lived in an area where it snows for all my life, these are tips i have been given by people. i live in northern Idaho

start in second gear if possible, it will minimize wheelspin, 4WD will help you accerlate, but wont help you steer or stop, winter tires are better than 4WD any day of the week

be easy on the brakes, the last thing you want to do is lock up the tires.

drive on the snow if possible, beware of black ice, its extremely dangerous, you can't see it, and it can cause you to skid super easy.

if there are 2 ruts in the road where most cars have driven, DONT drive on them. drive off to the side where there is snow, you will have traction and will be much less likely to skid.

DONUTS IN THE SNOW!!! (note, this was not a tip i received, I just think donuts make anything better)

orcim > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 04:42

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My parents always mount studded snows in winter. Helps a lot for black ice, but awareness (even if you can't *see* it) can do a lot more. Super slow is one answer - lining up for the *exit* is another (assuming you can.) Even if you hit it slow, a drift into the curb at 3 mph isn't gonna kill anything.

I'm reminded of an old friend that was a rally driver, doing navigation for a pro rally driver. Time was spent the night before looking at weather reports, clouds, etc. They were tearing through the SE countryside and came upon a bridge. The approach straightened right before the bridge and the driver lined it up at full speed, removed all changes to direction/inertia/power/everything like an arrow being aimed. Shooting straight across it, in neutral not touching any pedal, he got to the other side and applied steering and braking to make the turn. Black ice covered that bridge because of conditions and two other cars lost it on exit from the bridge.

I guess what the story tells me is: don't drive if there's black ice possible, if possible.

orcim > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 05:01

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I haven't seen mention of it, but I didn't read every response totally. So.. pardons if someone else mentioned this. WI, MN, CO driver here. (And now I'm in HI, go figure.)

Momentum is my comment. The other commenters are giving good advice. But there's a thing that always got me from A to B in snowy/icy conditions at it was managing my momentum. Let's say you've pulled out, determined the slipperiness of the conditions and are coming up on a hill. Approach it slow? Not in my book - the approach speed is the exact speed needed to reach the top with the friction available - +- 1 mph. If you can line up an approach to a black ice covered hill, add just the right amount of speed and let it carry you over the top (crawling) without having to correct/change direction mid-stream then you've just won the winter olympics.

There is only one thing that can stop this high performance expression. Other drivers not understanding what's required and going too slow. They carry their momentum to the mid-hill, stall, and start sliding backwards or get stuck. Your job, manage your following distance like an old grandma and don't follow anyone where momentum is required to perform. Make a clear shot. That's not easy.

There's more. Got ABS? No ABS? World of difference of driving for that. I realize most cars are ABS now, but if yours isn't, then How Fast Can You Pump? (Bad acronym.) I"ve ended up using pumping on non-ABS cars to allow me to steer to the patch of road that would give me back control for 2 seconds so I could avoid the accident. I suppose this comment is more: the road isn't consistent. There are places of slippery, places of semi-slippery and places of downright traction. Your job is to *see* them, steer for them, use them when you run across them to control your vehicle to keep everyone safe.

Also - if it's the first day of snow/slippery, don't go out. I used to get ultra-frustrated with my WI and MN brethren because that first day of snow would *freak them out.* They'd drive like idiots. Second day, no problem - all good. Not true in non-snow country places, but even snow country places have their moments of idiocy.

Two Drink Minimum > orcim 10/17/2014 at 10:07

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Vermont driver here. Have driven FWD small cars in winter weather for years. Orcim offers great advice all around. And the point about hills can not be overstated, and gets to the core of winter driving. It's all about managing, maintaining and directing energy.

The worst thing you can do is put yourself in a spot where you have to brake, accelerate or turn hard. Keep your eyes downfield, diagnose the conditions ahead, and set yourself up to manage them. So that means building momentum coming into a hill, so you don't spin your tires trying to accelerate halfway up. It also means using your tools. I drive a manual and rely heavily on engine breaking to bleed energy and keep me in the torque vs. drag sweet spot. I'll also do things like try to avoid full stops at traffic lights, slowing early so the light can change to green and traffic can get underway, without me coming to a full stop.

As for your car. Get four good snow tires. It makes a HUGE difference. The only winter incident I suffered was my first year in Vermont (1997) when our old minivan had all-seasons and slid into a snowbank. It was like driving on skates. I also travel with a 50 pound bag of sand in the back, and take a couple old towels and a shovel with me so I can dig and crawl out of a hole.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 11:14

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Some good points here, and I will probably end up repeating some of them. I will add turn your lights on if it is snowing at all, and even if it is just cloudy out with snow on the ground turn your lights on. When a car is covered in grime and the background is white and the sky is grey it can be just about invisible unless the lights are on. You want other people to see you.

Clean your whole car off. The entire windshield, the roof, the back window and all the side windows. You want to be able to see everyone else and you don't want to be the asshole who ends up with a foot of snow on his windshield the first time you stop at a light/stop sign. Clean your lights off so that other people can see them, and when you stop take a look at your tail lights. They get covered with snow while driving and aren't hot enough to keep it all melted off like headlights will.

Assume everyone else on the road is an idiot and leave as much space around you as you can. Everything is going to take a lot longer on slippery roads. On dry roads I've heard leave 2-4 seconds following distance. On slippery road that needs to at least double.

Try to avoid driving on shiny spots on the road. The shinier the road surface, the icier it is. By driving a little bit over from the shiny ruts you can find a little bit more traction.

Find an empty parking lot to hoon in. The more comfortable you are screwing around the more likely you will be able to catch it when your car starts to slide while driving on the roads. Realize that sooner or later you will slide unintentionally when driving on slippery roads. The more comfortable you are in a sliding car, the more likely you will catch it when it happens unintentionally. To minimize your chances of sliding drive as smoothly as possible. Jerking the wheel and stabbing the brake and gas will just make you slide.

As for tires I have had great experience with Dunlop Wintersport 3D's on my STI, Firestone Winterforce are a good choice and Bridgestone Blizzaks work well too. We have the WS70 on my wife's Escape and ran Firestone Winterforces on her old car. While winter tires are a huge help, the biggest safety feature is the driver. Know your limits and know your cars limits. Slow down, take your time and realize that it is better to get there late than end up in the ditch.

I do a lot of winter driving and we get a lot of snow (200"+ average). If you've got questions feel free to ask.

Coty > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 11:18

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Drive the Spec Miata in the snow. Do it.

Malforus > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 11:35

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In that case the biggest thing you need to look out for is obstructed views in intersections. Be vary careful about intersections, you might stop at the stopsign but Truckbro McCoy is going to slide right through.

I drive with my front windows down a bit so I can listen for cross traffic for that reason.

Ralstig > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 10/17/2014 at 12:37

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Thanks for the advice.

Ralstig > deekster_caddy 10/17/2014 at 12:40

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That's the biggest thing, I don't like having low traction.

Once at a Daytona race, It started to pour while I was still running my slicks.

Nothing is as scary as going out of the tri-oval into turn 1 and just understeering; even after I slowed down to 30ish.

Ralstig > jvirgs drives a Subaru 10/17/2014 at 12:43

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Even up in the mountains? I'm smack dab in the middle of the mountains.

Ralstig > orcim 10/17/2014 at 12:47

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Great advice, thank you.

Good think I'm using to driving momentum cars :P (Miata's and Mazda 2)

I have ABS. As for the patches of grip/slippery, how can you spot them? Is it like rain, where the slippery parts are glistening?

Ralstig > Two Drink Minimum 10/17/2014 at 12:51

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Cool, that's what I try to do now, even in good weather. Since I can't drive fast, I work towards getting good gas mileage.

Manual driver here also. (wouldn't have it any other way). Some other advice I was given was to try using your actual brakes as much as possible; mostly rely on engine braking. Good advice or bad? Theoretically it sounds good, but I just don't have any application, yet.

deekster_caddy > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 13:30

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Yeah, so that's pretty much what driving on black ice is like. You tend to get a bit more traction in snow. It's just a matter of building experience, and getting a feel for the snow. When the roads are heavily salted, you usually don't have much of a problem. But if you are in areas where they don't roll the salt trucks quickly, it's easy to get black ice built up in the travel ruts, and you can move into the powder/slush to get a little more traction back.

Obviously snow tires will bite better than anything else, but you CAN get by on all seasons with some practice. Where I live, 1 foot deep storms are par for the course in a heavy winter, so I'm putting snow tires on. I don't know what the NC mountains are like, but if you get 3 inches of snow 6 times a year, it's probably not worth doing snow tires. If they get snow like the canadiens get, then by all means get snow tires...

Snow tires also give fantastic grip in cold wet weather driving.

I think you should wait and see. In your first snowfall, just slow down and take it easy until you get a feel for it. Don't tailgate. If people are honking at you for going too slow, flip em off and keep doing what you need to do. Don't get overconfident with the conditions until you know what you are looking for.

The trickiest condition is when it's 33 degrees outside and raining, and there are a few flakes in the air. You don't know at what point the wet pavement turns to ice... That's the time when you start to see a lot of cars in the ditch on the side of the road, people who misjudged the changeover. Typically if the roads are covered with snow, it's pretty obvious what the conditions are and everybody does the same thing.

Ralstig > Arben72 10/17/2014 at 14:34

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I'm more worried because it's my first time with snow. I've lived in Florida 90% of my life.

Arben72 > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 14:52

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Snow is just 10x slicker then rain, no big deal. Just don't drive out of your comfort zone as you will be jerky and that will cause issues. My recommendations are to find an empty parking lot the first snowfall and find the limits of your car. Then drive at a tenth of that as you will hit ice and traction is semi-non existent then. Don't accelerate til your car is straight and be mindful of your braking zone

jvirgs drives a Subaru > Ralstig 10/17/2014 at 21:00

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I would verify with neighbors how much snow they actually get. If the area has snow on the ground for most of winter, then snow tires would be worth it. But if you end up with an inch here, an inch there, you'd be throwing away money on snow tires since they don't last long when driven on clear roads

Ralstig > jvirgs drives a Subaru 10/17/2014 at 21:03

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Thanks,

I've been thinking about getting the Nokian WRG3's. They are an all season tire, with more emphasis on winter performance. A lot of reviews are giving them good marks.

orcim > Ralstig 10/18/2014 at 03:15

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Yes and no. It might be purely visual - like a man hole cover, steaming, and everything around it is melted. It might be textural, like the glistening. See a seemingly bare road and part of it is glistening and it's 15 degrees? Prolly bad. The other thing is just stuff you'll pick up going slow and paying attention. For instance, virgin snow that hasn't been run over is going to give more traction than stuff that's compacted down by other cars (generally.) It has more resistance to rolling, also.

A side note. While playing in the winter world, beware the high center. Snow too deep to push aside or roll over and so it builds under the car lifting the wheels. Think twice before charging a snow plow bank of snow - that's a great place to get stuck since it's compacted already and doesn't compress well.

All in all, I wouldn't worry about it. Pretend you're on a track and just getting the first lap started. All your senses are on, the radio is off (not that you'd have one on a track) no one is talking and you let the car tell you what's going on under the tires so you'll know. It's really an awareness exercise on some level.